From Making Skirts to Masks with Susan Ramee

As the world is forced to adapt in order to stay healthy and safe due to the COVID-19 pandemic, it's important for people to find meaningful things to do. Emily Brunner talks with Susan Ramee, creator of Sajell dancewer and Masks by Sajell, about how she transitioned from making dance skirts to face masks during the COVID-19 pandemic.

To purchase masks please visit Masks by Sajell on Etsy

Transcript

Emily:   0:00
Four years ago, Susan Ramee was sitting in the lobby at the School of Pennsylvania Ballet, waiting for her daughter, Sajel's, dance class to end. Susan was thinking about how wonderfully unique each of the dancers in the studio were and how she would love to help those dancers find a way to show off their own unique style. She was inspired to make Sajel a skirt that she could wear during her weekly Variations class After class the night she wore her new skirt, Susan found herself surrounded by Sajel's classmates, all of them wanting to purchase one for themselves. That night, Sajell dancewear was born. Susan has spent the last four years designing and hand making, hundreds of unique, limited edition skirts. This March, when the Covid-19 Pandemic arrived in Philadelphia, Susan decided to temporarily stop making skirts and to start making face masks, using the fabrics and materials she had lying around the house and she has been busy ever since. Susan, I'm so thankful to be talking with you today. I first met you, probably about a decade ago, in the waiting room at Wayne Ballet, where both of our very young daughters were dancing and ah, lot has changed in our lives since then.

Susan:   1:24
Yes, I remember. I remember looking at them both. And Julia is so pretty. Your daughter, she had this, like, wilt about her and then yeah, they were little.

Emily:   1:37
They were little. Yeah, they sure were. So when did dance become a part of your life? Were you a dancer or did you, did you come to dance through your daughter Sajel?

Susan:   1:48
I was not a dancer. I took dance class when I was six years old, but I brought, Sajel into dance when she was three or so, and she just loved it. So that's I just and I've always sort of had this pension for being around the stage, but too shy to actually be on the stage. So Wayne Ballet was a great then for that. So I started making costumes and started doing like, stage management kinds of things. Well, maybe that's too big of a word for it. I helped out behind the stage. I got the hang out behind the curtains. I definitely okay, stage management is way too big of a word, but it was a lot of fun.

Emily:   2:34
Yeah, I remember. I remember seeing you with the costumes. And yes, you know it. Nutcracker, huh? Yeah. Helping out with all of the all of the sewing and things that were really an important part of making this show go on.

Susan:   2:49
That's what I learned how to make tutus, actually, way before skirts.

Emily:   2:52
Oh, wow. A tutu sounds like it would be hard to make. 

Susan:   2:56
Tutus are very hard to make and, like they actually have, like, hold to two classes you can, you know, by master to two makers from all over the world. And, you know, But I did the best I could with YouTube videos and a lot of information and a lot of like, Okay, this doesn't have to go on the stage of Pennsylvania Ballet. Um, so it should work pretty well, So I did. I did make the tutus for, um, was the name of that, uh, hot chocolate, Spanish.

Emily:   3:29
Yeah, Yeah, the red ones.

Susan:   3:33
The red ones. Well, one of the red ones. Yeah. Did Julia ever wear one of those?

Emily:   3:36
Oh, gosh, I should know, but I can't remember. Um I don't think she ever wore, like the tutu. I think she I think she performed it once. But I think that year she was maybe not on pointe. And the, uh it may have been more like a dress. 

Susan:   3:54
I know she wore some of my flower costumes. Yes, yes, yes. That was a lot of work. That was a lot of costumes.

Emily:   4:03
Yeah. So you so you had a lot of experience with costumes before you started before you started Sajell. Before you started making your own skirts.

Susan:   4:11
Kinda. Um I mean, I just did it. You know, it's one of those things where I just do because I figure if other people can figure out how to do this, I should be able to figure out how to do this. Yeah. So I didn't have really any experience with costumes and still until I started messing with, um um, you know, at Wayne Ballet.

Emily:   4:32
Yeah, well, you know, doing something is a great way to learn it, right?

Susan:   4:38
Yeah. And it was getting over that fear of failure, which was kind of a big part of the whole thing. I mean it, really. You know, I fixed my I've done all sorts of fixing around the house again with using the same theory like a I can't make it any worse. So because it's already broken, right, it doesn't work.  I fixed like my blender, and I fixed the dishwasher and various other things. Most the time it goes okay, sometimes, you know, it needs fixing from my fixing. Well,

Emily:   5:14
When you first started making skirts for the girls who were asking for them, what was that like for you? Was that a moment that was full of inspiration and creativity or or was it a moment that that became full of lots of logistics and hard work? Like Like, how do I do this? How do I make, um, a bunch of skirts?

Susan:   5:35
Both those, um, I mean, so I've been, like, kind of a creative individual my whole life, and I've always made stuff. Um, but I've never been comfortable with selling any of it, like just ever. Um, and people have asked me to buy this or that I've painted of than pottery of, um, variety things, and it just I much for for giving things away. It's I think it might have something to do with not having confidence, I suppose, in somebody paying money for your thing. You know, like what if they think you're thing isn't worth the money that they spent for and then they won't like you are something kind of like that anyway, So when all the girls were asking me for the skirts, it was more of a the logistics and everything. Like I wasn't worried about that. It was the emotional impact of it all. Like how in the world can, like I knew that I couldn't make, like, 10 or 15 skirts for free. It was just too time consuming. But I did want to satisfy them. So I'm like, OK, I guess I'm just gonna have to sell them. But it was really going outside my comfort zone. So most of the work I spent was honestly was emotional.

Emily:   6:55
Yeah, I think that makes a lot of sense. And I think that's something that a lot of people struggle with, You know, it is really hard. To put a value on yourself, you know, to assign a figure a dollar figure. Yeah, that representing your value. That's that that's a hard thing to do emotionally.

Susan:   7:12
And then the problem is, too, though is like inside deep down inside, like I think they're worth. You know, I think they're great, right? I think they're wonderful. And, you know, people should be so happy to spend lots of money for them. But in reality that, you know, people don't want to spend their hard earned money on stuff. Also, they compare them to skirts that were made in China and in bulk, which is super cheap and like the dance stores. And so I would make these skirts. They're more like, I guess, a little more on the artistic side. But they would cost more than the skirts that were imported and made, you know, by factories. And people would say to me, Oh, they're beautiful. But they cost too much, um, because I couldn't sell them for, you know, $15 like the factory skirts were, and it would like really hurt my feelings, but I knew it shouldn't. So that was another like effort, emotional thing I had to like cope with

Emily:   8:21
Yeah. Yeah, that that's tough. That's definitely a hard part about being a business owner. And in a creative,

Susan:   8:27
It's really I mean, I'm sure you have the same situation with your photography, right?

Emily:   8:31
Yeah, definitely. Yeah, for sure.

Susan:   8:34
It's not easy. I mean, especially when somebody says, Oh, that's beautiful. And I love it. And you get all excited like, Oh, yeah, Let me buy it. And then you tell them how much it costs. And then they their face falls. Yeah, like uh huh.

Emily:   8:49
So what? So what about it, um, kept you going? Like what about it gave you momentum, to work through those those tough feelings.

Susan:   9:00
I guess enough people really did like them. And I decided that I just had to grow up in try the develop a spying, which I had never really had my whole life. Um, I said Okay. Well, I guess if it's going to be time to do that, they might as well do it now that I'm in my fifties. Um, so I worked on developing a spine. That was I mean, eso the tip of the palm myself as a a challenge to my psyche. Um, yeah. And also the other good thing to that was that a local store, you know Swan Dancewear? Yes, yes. So Marla, from Swan Dance were thought they were lovely and started selling them in Swan Dancewear? And I got a lot of wonderful positive feedback from the people going in there, and that really helped a lot too.

Emily:   9:49
You know, I think it's sort of like jumping off the high dive, you know, we're jumping off a cliff into the into the lake. You, um it's scary, and at some point you just have to make yourself do it yet. And I think with doing things like this, things that are new to us and things that are scary, like we have to, we have to force ourselves to do it in spite of whatever fear insecurities we have. That fear is not going to go away. But you have to. You still have to act. You still have to create what you want to create and put it out there, and the only way that's gonna happen is it is when we force ourselves to do it. It feels bad at first, but it's an essential part of doing what we want to do.

Susan:   10:32
Yes, Yes, and I It's one of those things where it's a skill I wish I had developed, you know, three decades ago. Um, but you know, So it's, um I never really thought I would ever have to develop it, you know, like I didn't think I was going to be in this position of being a business person.

Emily:   10:54
I think that's that's kind of a wish that that a lot of, um, a lot of people have once they've had some experiences and then they wish that they could go back and tell their younger self. Um, you know, don't worry. You can do this and give them the occurrence encouragement. But it's hard when you know when when you haven't done something before. It's easier looking back.

Susan:   11:14
That was part of it, too. Was that You know, I wasn't I was sort of at an age where, you know, starting something brand new, like this was super intimidating, you know, um, feeling like, Wow, I'm I'm like doing this in that same time. Like I got this. I went to see I went to a is called ah, sewing boot camp in Albuquerque. And it was hosted by this lady who learned who knew how to sew and manufacture things in factories and whatnot. And I learned how to do a lot of stuff in bulk and whatever, but all the other people were that were there except for one were, like in their twenties. And it just graduated from fashion school, you know? And there was me and this one other person in our fifties going way too late to this game or what? But it was OK because the lady who ran it was like older than dirt. So that was fine. At least it was somebody, you know older than us there, so

Emily:   12:25
Yes. Yeah, yeah, it's It's good to have people of all ages. Everybody brings something different to the experience.  So what were your plans for Sajell at the end of 2019?

Susan:   12:40
Well, that was the that was awkward place because the sales weren't going the way I wanted them to. I didn't know how to price them exactly for the problems. I was just Steding, um and I mean, they were selling, and I was getting a lot of traction on Instagram and things, but I think I don't know if there really was a market for them. Um, because dancers don't tend to have a lot of money at all on they getting everything on the very cheap. So, um, anyways, the sales, the sales were very, very slow, and it was super discouraging. Um, and then a bunch of other stuff happened, and I kind of went into a major depression. And so it Jajell, the company got shelves for a while until I could figure out my own past forward, Um, and what to do about it On DSO to date, I still don't know exactly what to do. I have it. I really had to work hard on being dealing with major depression, partly because of the business a little bit just because it wasn't going. I mean, I got a lot of really positive feedback on it. It's just I just don't know if it was worth it or is worth it. So,

Emily:   14:14
Yeah, you know, and there's a lot of different ways to define whether it's worth it or not. You know, you can look at all the profits. You can look at personal satisfaction looking reach, you know, there's a there's a lot of different ways, and it takes a while to figure that out for yourself because different people have different goals for the reason why they do something

Susan:   14:33
Right. And a lot of people they're like, Well, do you like doing it? I'm like, Well, I guess I do like doing it. Except when things don't sell for a number of weeks than I stopped, like doing. You know, there's no one answer to whether or not I like doing it. It depends on the moment. Depends on the week, depends of what somebody says to me that day. You know, um, it just fluctuates so dramatically sometimes. So I'm just trying to decide.

Emily:   15:04
Were you still kind of in that frame of mind when Covid um, came came to America, Had you taken some some new steps in the business. Or where were you at with your business when you realized that this virus was was coming and was going to affect us all

Susan:   15:25
I had kind of, you know, neglected pretty much since last summer. S oh, by the time Covid hit the business. It was sort of stagnant and not really doing much of anything. Oh, actually, you know what? Come to think of it, that's completely not true. I found I've just remembered some things like that's how much it's like, not really on the top of my brain. There's, ah, ballet school north of Philadelphia. And they fell in love with my skirts, and I kept them bringing them up to the school, and they kept selling out of them. So, um, right in the middle of the Covid thing I was supposed to go and drop off a whole ton of more skirts up to the school, and then they closed and we have locked down. So they're still up there languishing in some dark room someplace. Um and, uh, yeah, I guess I will try to figure that out when this whole thing lifts the thing. 

Emily:   16:25
Yeah, at some point we will get back to maybe not normal, but we'll get it to other things. Other things than just thinking about this virus.

Susan:   16:38
Yeah, I don't mind this virus. Actually, this doesn't bother me. I mean, the virus itself bothers me, but being home doing my thing is fine. I am perfectly happy doing this.

Emily:   16:52
So when when did you realize that you you had, like, the ability to help the community stay safe?

Susan:   17:02
Probably in February, actually. On back when they were saying that we should all stay six view part and masks aren't needed. I thought that doesn't make sense. The six feet apart part makes sense, but the masks not need it doesn't make any sense. Um, and I thought, OK, well, maybe it does make sense, you know? Maybe the idea that if people touch them too much, they're going to spread it to themselves. But then it just seems like it. You know, you call if you sneeze and stays inside the mask instead of going out into the atmosphere. Isn't that a good thing? It protects you from somebody else coughing or sneezing into the atmosphere. Anyway,

Emily:   17:45
I mean, you've seen the analogy with, like, the people without pants...

Susan:   17:49
Yeah, Yeah, I do. I'm glad that finally came out. I wish it had come out in February. And I certainly wish the CDC promoted it back then because I don't think we would have all this weirdness now, like with the guy I saw this morning, and you know his comment on mask wearing and that wearing masks is a denial of his freedoms And, um uh, so that like it. So it's become such a politicized craziness. Whether or not you wear a mask, it knows it's yeah.

Emily:   18:28
So what has the response been like, you know, with you, with you making masks, I would assume that the majority has been very positive because it is a little bit polarizing. You know, there are people who feel like it's, ah that it's not necessary or they feel, you know, angry that they have to wear a mask. And then there's some a lot of people who who are thankful for them,

Susan:   18:50
Right. Well, I feel like they're a great thing, and I have gotten absolutely other than this one guy this one morning today, I've got nothing but positive feedback from people on. When I first started making them, I was just giving them away for like, how we talked before about how I don't like to sell things, But then so many people were asking for them. I was spending, like, all day long making masks, but they were I was there, people who I knew had the wherewithal to buy them. And I thought, you know, to keep me going, I'm gonna need to sell them so that I can continue to purchase supplies and stuff to give them away for the people who are needy. And so that's how come I started the, um, the Etsy store where I'm actually selling them. And then I'm giving what I'm giving them away to, um, like women's shelters And, um, you know, the healthcare people and stuff. But other than this one guy this one morning, I have not personally interacted with anybody who thinks masks are a, um you know, a a statement against the freedom of America? Um, yeah, I just because I just I think, you know, we're all in this together, and it's to keep each other safe. I mean, that's why we drive on the right side of the road. You know, I have the freedom to drive on the left side of the road, but if I did, I'd be caught by the cops because it's illegal and I'm endangering all of my fellow men. So I drive on the right because I choose to Yeah, it's nice thing to do for everybody. So I don't consider the, you know, I don't feel like I even if I like it. But what if I grew up in England and it was insisted on driving on the left side of the road? Right, Because it's my freedom to do so anyways.

Emily:   20:52
Yeah, yeah, I mean, yes, it's It's obvious that we well, I think to most of us, it's It's obvious that that we have to give a little bit of freedom, Um, for the greater good so that everybody can be safe, you know? And am the freedom of like, not being able to drive on the left hand side of the road doesn't really hurt us at all. And no, you know, I would. I think that the, you know, be needing to wear masks and when we go out into public store doesn't really hurt us either.

Susan:   21:25
I couldn't agree more, but it did hurt this guy this morning. His eyes were flashing and he was just like Okay, Yeah. I mean, he was ready to kind of go at it, as far as you know, having an argument. And I was just like, okay. And I just kind of left.

Emily:   21:44
Yeah, that's that's not an argument worth having. I don't I don't think.

Susan:   21:47
No, it really wasn't, cause it's not going to make any difference to anything anyway. And I figured I'll just go home and make somewhere masks. And yes, if either rub off the from his eyes flashing at me. Yes, well, is you.

Emily:   22:01
I can imagine, um, I know for me when I started wearing a mask that it actually helped me not touch my face. Yeah, and I know, I know some people are adjusting them all the time, and but for me, wearing the mask made me just aware of my face. And then also then where my hands were going. So I like the few times that I have gone out into public to the grocery store. Over the past couple months, I've warned the mask and and I've really been aware of the fact that I have not touched my face while I'm here, and I'm pretty sure that if I was not wearing the mask and and I was just kind of going about my business as normal, I'd probably be scratching my nose and wiping my eyes, you know, moving hair out of the way,

Susan:   22:47
Picking you nose in secret! Yes, definitely. But, you know, I also I found that when they fit right, which is what so I started making. I started thinking about making them in February, and I started making them in March. But it took me a long time to get them up on etc. Because I wanted to make sure they fit perfectly. So I really spent a long time perfecting the pattern.

Emily:   23:09
How did we do that? Did you just make, like, make prototypes and test them out?

Susan:   23:13
Yes, yes, I made prototypes and tested them out, like on me and on my daughter and on the guy across the street who are there. He's my model. Ah, yes, you've

Emily:   23:25
I was wondering who your model was because I knew wasn't your husband. 

Susan:   23:30
No, my husband's in Seattle, and besides, he's got sort of a bald head. My guy across the street is is a pretty handsome guy. And so he made a very good model. Uh, I didn't do it because he was handsome. I did because he was seen. But it's sort of nice. It is funny of how the couple of people actually asked me, like, Who is he?

Emily:   23:54
Who is that masked, man?

Susan:   23:54
Exactly. You thought that was cute? Yeah. Um, yeah,

Emily:   24:00
I think you're right. It's important that, you know, when we're meant wearing masks that they do fit. Yeah, they are.

Susan:   24:06
And they're comfortable And, you know, And the thing was to as I was making them for the same reason I started making the skirts, I was like, OK, this is sad. We're all wearing these awful boring mask like less. Let's at least be able to express some of our personality in our face, even if your face is being halfway covered up, you know? And I felt a bit sort of like a man's pocket square or women's scarf or a purse or whatever. Like, Why can't it be something at least that makes you smile a little bit? Or if not, you smile the person across from you in the you know, the grocery store line.

Emily:   24:45
Yeah, I am. I get excited when I see you're that you're sharing new designs, you know,  and it makes me want to buy more. 

Susan:   24:55
Yes, you did. Yeah, that's neat. And that's what, actually, and this is something is really surprised me a lot that, um I keep getting this keep getting repeat orders from people, which makes me super happy because, you know, because of this, this cove in thing I don't really know, You know, I don't see a lot of people personally, so I don't really know how people feel about them other than the people who bought them. And you have bought them again. I was like, OK, this is good. Yeah, well,

Emily:   25:25
With my family, I started out just because we needed something. So I just took that, took a bandanna and folded it and, you know, wrapped it with the hair ties, and it works. But I really had a hard time seeing around because it was so bulky on the side. So I'm super excited. Then when I saw that you were making them and I I bought two for my family and there's five of us. So I started with buying two, and then I took my kids outside one day. Um, we wanted to when the Blue Angels flew over, we want to go somewhere where we could see them. So we got in the car and drove to where we could see them. And I said, Well, you know, when we get out of the car, we're gonna wear the masks. But we only had two of your masks, and so we were fighting over who would wear the real masks.

Susan:   26:12
I'm not happy about causing a fight, but it does make me happy.

Emily:   26:15
And so Julia, my oldest daughter, and I, we we, ah sacrificed and wore the folded bandannas and let the younger to where the masks. But that is so. That's why this weekend I'm like, I've got to buy us all real masks because it makes it makes a difference. You know, if you have to wear one if you need to wear one or want till wear one. Ah, having one that is comfortable and makes you happy, it just makes whatever you're doing that much better.

Susan:   26:46
It does, and it doesn't fall off your nose. and you're not, like poking at it all the time. It doesn't room, you know. And that's that's the other thing is, I started out with just two sizes, you know, men's and women's, um, or larges and mediums are That was another thing. Trying to feel what? How? The call the sizes. But then, um, I realized, you know, other people younger people needed them, too. So I started making two more sizes. And now I have four sizes. Um, from, like, six years old, up to women. I mean, sorry, man. And then, um, my somewhat hefty friend said it Wouldn't it be nice if we could, you know, make bigger than large is So now I'm producing an extra large. OK, so now I'm gonna have five sizes,

Emily:   27:35
So yeah, I guess you know, one size does not fit all one

Susan:   27:39
Size does not fit all unless you have. I mean, your face itself is different sizes and like how far, like how big the loops are. And I think that's my biggest problem now is I'm trying to come up with a way to make the ear loops suggestible somehow. Yeah. I've seen that scene that some factories have figured that out. Um, but I'm not sure I like their way. So still thinking about it?

Emily:   28:06
Yeah. So this, uh, you can keep on keep working on designing and inventing, trying new new ways.

Susan:   28:13
I have to Emily, because if I don't, I get bored. I really do. I get bored super fast and, um, with the skirt said that the same thing, I That's one reason why I never made more than a couple of each fabric because a lot of it I was making it for me. You know, I didn't ever want to be a cog in some kind of factory, you know, and just crank out dozens of these things that were the same because I wouldn't do it then. You know, I like playing with the fabric and I like, you know, combining the different kinds of things and each one to me waas a new creative endeavor. And, you know, that's kind of the way it is with the masks, too. I only buy a yard of fabric and I make what I can out of the yard, and then I move on to another yard. So that's why you're going to keep seeing a lot of different ones all the time because I've run out the fabric. Yes, when it's done, it's done. And I mean, that happens, goes on again. I'm gonna guess Well, I'm so excited. I just order the whole bunch of fabric from India. Oh, like like the cotton block prints kind of thing. And I thought, That's going to be cool.

Emily:   29:27
Yes, I think I'll be buying more masks. Uh, it sounds like the process of it is really, really enjoyable for you.

Susan:   29:40
It is, and it's so satisfying that I can also help. It's like it's this great. You know? It's the perfect storm of kind of happiness in its in its own crazy way. And I feel like I can give back and I could be creative And yeah, I just it's making me pretty happy. It

Emily:   29:58
It sounds like making masks has has really actually helped you too in a lot of ways over the last couple months,

Susan:   30:04
Making masks has really helped me, and it's it's I have this, um, dirty little secret. I guess it's not so much of a secret, which is like, I wonder what I'm going to do when this all ends. You know, like this is giving me such a great you know, way of, you know, looking at the world now and my part in it. And when it all ends, then what? So I'm going to be back to the then what, when this ends.

Emily:   30:34
You never I mean, you never know because one thing leads to another.  Instead of then what it might be what's  next, you know?

Susan:   30:46
Yes. Well, certainly couldn't have predicted masks being next after skirts. So I figure as long as I'm open to whatever whatever comes down the pike, there should be something that happens. But, you know, as long as you don't fall into the depressive state where you can take in anything, then I think something will happen. Um I mean, as long as I'm I guess open to whatever the world speaks to me, I suppose. Yeah, the trick is not to descend into that sort of depressive abyss because there's no, um, purpose anymore, you know, and purveying so important it is. And what the problem is is, once you're there, you can take in anything, even if there is a great idea out there can come knocking at your door and you won't hear it. Yeah, you just don't. You don't You don't. You know, it's a terrible disease.

Emily:   31:51
Yeah, I, um I can imagine. I've Yeah, I've never I've never struggled with that personally. Um, good s Oh, yeah, I am. I mean, we all You know, we all have different struggles, but I'm gonna be thankful that that's one I haven't struggled with.

Susan:   32:09
Yeah, you know, I mean, I guess I guess I don't know if I'm thankful or not thankful It's my own little cross to bear. Certainly understand it really well, at this point, um, you But is this It is hard to explain people that don't have it. It's a yeah, you know,

Emily:   32:29
I don't think it's ah, it's very rational. And I think when people are trying to understand something, they're thinking they're usually thinking rationally. 

Susan:   32:40
Yeah, that's exactly right, Emily, cause you do explain it to them. And then they're like, Well, that doesn't make any sense. Like, yes, exactly. It doesn't make sense. That's why it's That's why it's kookoo talk. Ah, yeah, exactly.

Emily:   32:57
Well, I'm so happy that right now that you've found ah place in your life where you feel really great since the purpose and I yeah, I think just, um I think in general it's probably good for a lot of us to start thinking of like, Well, this this is the way life is, you know, with with this dealing with this virus and trying to stay safe and doing what we can. Um, I don't think that it's really a great idea right now to think about returning to normal. You know, I don't think that when you wear in the near term for any of us, and I don't even know like what is normal, you know, that's a question, isn't it? 

Susan:   33:37
It really is. When this is all over, who are we going to be? A mask wearing nation? Are we going to, you know, Are we going to be politicized whether or not we wear them? Is it gonna cause, like, fights in the streets? I mean, who knows? This whole thing is just so crazy, right? I figured to stay inside, and so, until it's all over,

Emily:   33:58
That's a really great plan

Susan:   34:00
That is And that's the plan.

Emily:   34:02
Uh huh. Um, it's the more present minded I think we can be. Um, the better, especially right now. So I think it's great that you're in a really, um, great place both your physically safe and you're emotionally feeling good. And that makes me happy. 

Susan:   34:22
I still have to be creative and like that, the creativity out into the world and help people at the same time. It just I don't know. The whole thing feels just so good.

Emily:   34:31
Yes it is. It's so nice way. Don't you know? I miss I miss? Just like little conversations that you have with people. When you run into your friend at the grocery or you're waiting, um, you know, waiting for your kid at their activity. And you're talking to your friends who are sitting there waiting along with you. I miss that. Those those casual sorts of conversations, you know, we don't There's no place for those right now.

Susan:   34:56
Have you noticed, though, that when you do see people, even if you knew them casually how wonderfully special it is to talk to them now? like it's this really neat thing. Instead of taking people for granted as much I've found that, you know, I find somebody I know. I'm like, Wow, it's so nice to see you. Uh, you know, I feel so excited, whereas, you know, a couple of months ago be like, Well, hi. How are you doing? You know, a todo it's it's really given you a whole different outlook on the people, your friends, or even your acquaintances around you.

Emily:   35:32
Definitely. Yeah. I mean, um, it's obviously, like a terrible thing that's happening to people with their health and businesses and lively hoods. But But there are some silver linings, and that's definitely one of thumb.

Susan:   35:45
I've seen silver linings in this thing from the very beginning. I mean, I really have. Yeah, that's clear. It is. Yes, it's never really tortured me a lot. I just, um, again, I'm not on the front lines and I don't know anybody personally who has it or has been sick, sickened from it or anything. So I think if that was the case, I might feel completely differently. I don't know, Um, but I do think this has really been a good a good sort of wake up call to the world for lots of lots of different reasons.

Emily:   36:19
I agree. Yeah. So, Susan, where can people find you to order masks or skirts? Are you still selling skirts if somebody wanted one? Um,

Susan:   36:31
The web's the skirt website. Well, here's the problem is like I was telling you about all those skirts up in, up in the minutes, right. Well, so they still have all my skirts. So the website's completely sold out. I can't actually sell in the skirts because I don't have them in and my on my person to do so from But if, ah, but the masks are available. I don't think anybody is gonna be wearing skirts for well anyway, so probably not. Yeah. So the masks are available on Etsy And the store is called MasksBySajell and spelled  masks by and Sajell is s a j e l l.

Emily:   37:20
I will put a link to the Etsy store as well as your as well as your your website for the skirts.

Susan:   37:29
Your lovely Yes. Did you ever tell you the original name for the business? No. Oh, yeah. Okay, so the originally in for the business was been feather and I had gotten the logo I had gotten went to a marketing people cause I wanted it to be all official and have a logo made in everything. Um, so they're like, um, yeah, that's not the greatest name I'm like. Yeah, I know. But I couldn't come up with anyone any good name. And they're like, Well, your daughter's name is really pretty like, Yeah, why don't you name it Sajell? I'm like, I don't think she would like that very much. Uh, you know, she was what, like, 13 at that time. And, um so I asked her, and she's like, No way, like, Okay, why don't you think about it and by the week later? She's like, Okay, Mom, you can do it. So that's why I named it Sajell. But I did spell it differently. Um, Sajel that you know, only has one l and Sajell, the company has two. So that's it.

Emily:   38:35
This way you can tell the difference.

Susan:   38:37
Yeah, but nobody else on the planet can just me.

Emily:   38:43
Well, thank you so much for just openly and candidly sharing your story with us. And it's been really inspiring, you know, to see that you're doing something. You taking action and finding a way to toe help others that it can really be a therapeutic thing for ourselves.

Susan:   39:01
Well thank you, Emily. But look at you. I mean, you're doing the same thing here. Look, putting this out to the world and giving of yoursel. Um, yeah. So, back at you.

Emily:   39:11
Oh, thank you. Take care.

Susan:   39:13
Bye bye, sweetie.